ALERT AT&T shutting down your rural line?

[Samot]

Because the phone companies spend millions in lobbying politicians to loosen regulations.

Look, you want to blame someone blame USTelecom not the lobbyist.

-- 2017 FCC is already looking at shutting down legacy copper networks.
-- 2018 USTelecom makes the petetion for POTS/TDM/legacy copper relief, i.e. shutting it down.
-- 2019 FCC deregulates copper completely. All price caps are removed (allowing ILECs to raise costs on CLECs), carriers are free to retire copper at their own pace
-- 2022 The deadline in August, which people thought was a hard deadline but it wasn't.
-- 2024 The decommissioning of copper happens at the rate of 434% YTD
-- 2025 USTelecom wants to change testing and replacement requirements. Standalone voice replacement is no longer required. Carriers can bundle the replacement for POTS with other offerings and does not need a standalone product for it.
-- 2026 No longer requires FCC approval and can now shut down services with a 90 day notice vs 180 day notice.

ATT, Verizon, CenturyLink, etc all of them have been talking about this since 2013. None of this is a surprise. None of this has to do with lobbyist. 20 some years ago we peaked at close to 175 million POTS/PSTN copper lines. In 2024 that count was around 11.5 million so roughly a 93% reduction. Now with the increase since 2024 of shutting down copper and today, there's no way that 11.5 million is still 11.5 million, it's probably well under 10 million.

There's anywhere from 5-6% of POTS/PSTN copper lines left in service from the peak of 175 million 20 years ago. That works out to 200,000 lines per state but that's average considering that Vermont may have 20,000 while California still might have a million. Again we averaged 3.5 million POTS/PSTN lines per state at our peak, that same infrastructure has to be maintained for the last 200,000 lines per state...a 94% decrease.

Its all about more revenue, less expense and stock-holder dividends.

ATT freed up billions in capital from shutting down copper networks in various areas over the last 1-2 years. This is simple business logic. I mean seriously would **you** continue to pay more than the generated revenue for a product/service that you provide? Product X makes you $3K/month but costs you $5K/month to operate it, you would be looking at ways to off load that.

I don't understand how providers get away with reducing service in the name of progress.

You do understand that Mobile made the biggest blows to the copper based services, right? We all understand that? By the time people were switching to VoIP based services, numerous people jump ship on having a "landline" at all. The copper network has being dying a slow death of a thousand cuts since it peaked and the smartphone boom happened.

Based on the FCC in 2018 before a single retirement was done the break down for retail voice service was
Mobile: 70% of the market
VoIP: 14% of the market
CO Copper: 10% of the market

FCC in 2024 reports:
Mobile: 82% of the market
VoIP: 14% of the market
CO Copper: 4% of the market

So the thing that was announced almost a decade ago that it was going to end is finally ending but it's the lobbyists and share holders fault, right? No, it's naturally dying has it has been for the last almost 20 years and this is the final death throes.

 

[wardmundy]

History is a bitch. The companies you are defending made billions in many cases bilking homeowners to make calls across town. So shedding tears for them because it's no longer profitable is rich indeed. And guess who owns most of the mobile market that you're now touting as stealing their business... the same a$$holes. Verizon and AT&T are the original Bell Sisters.

 

[dallas]

Look, you want to blame someone blame USTelecom not the lobbyist.

-- 2017 FCC is already looking at shutting down legacy copper networks.
-- 2018 USTelecom makes the petetion for POTS/TDM/legacy copper relief, i.e. shutting it down.
-- 2019 FCC deregulates copper completely. All price caps are removed (allowing ILECs to raise costs on CLECs), carriers are free to retire copper at their own pace
-- 2022 The deadline in August, which people thought was a hard deadline but it wasn't.
-- 2024 The decommissioning of copper happens at the rate of 434% YTD
-- 2025 USTelecom wants to change testing and replacement requirements. Standalone voice replacement is no longer required. Carriers can bundle the replacement for POTS with other offerings and does not need a standalone product for it.
-- 2026 No longer requires FCC approval and can now shut down services with a 90 day notice vs 180 day notice.

ATT, Verizon, CenturyLink, etc all of them have been talking about this since 2013. None of this is a surprise. None of this has to do with lobbyist. 20 some years ago we peaked at close to 175 million POTS/PSTN copper lines. In 2024 that count was around 11.5 million so roughly a 93% reduction. Now with the increase since 2024 of shutting down copper and today, there's no way that 11.5 million is still 11.5 million, it's probably well under 10 million.

There's anywhere from 5-6% of POTS/PSTN copper lines left in service from the peak of 175 million 20 years ago. That works out to 200,000 lines per state but that's average considering that Vermont may have 20,000 while California still might have a million. Again we averaged 3.5 million POTS/PSTN lines per state at our peak, that same infrastructure has to be maintained for the last 200,000 lines per state...a 94% decrease.


ATT freed up billions in capital from shutting down copper networks in various areas over the last 1-2 years. This is simple business logic. I mean seriously would **you** continue to pay more than the generated revenue for a product/service that you provide? Product X makes you $3K/month but costs you $5K/month to operate it, you would be looking at ways to off load that.


You do understand that Mobile made the biggest blows to the copper based services, right? We all understand that? By the time people were switching to VoIP based services, numerous people jump ship on having a "landline" at all. The copper network has being dying a slow death of a thousand cuts since it peaked and the smartphone boom happened.

Based on the FCC in 2018 before a single retirement was done the break down for retail voice service was
Mobile: 70% of the market
VoIP: 14% of the market
CO Copper: 10% of the market

FCC in 2024 reports:
Mobile: 82% of the market
VoIP: 14% of the market
CO Copper: 4% of the market

So the thing that was announced almost a decade ago that it was going to end is finally ending but it's the lobbyists and share holders fault, right? No, it's naturally dying has it has been for the last almost 20 years and this is the final death throes.

While all that may be true, it's no excuse to take away features that are seen by the customer as essential.
To be truthful, looking at my home POTS line I have not had a call since the middle of June but it's there as a last resort and it's more reliable than the Mobile service.

 

[wardmundy]

 

[Samot]

View attachment 6524

Don't know where this picture actually comes from but the fact that it's a tech cutting a line that isn't attached to anything on the other end is pretty great. Also don't know where that statement comes from, AARP or not but it's completely misleading as the term "landline" hasn't meant CO powered POTS for the last 20 years. A "landline" is any fixed location service regardless of how it's delivered.

This is becoming one of the most over sensationalized and performative things I've seen in a while for a giant nothing burger. In the context of AARP there's roughly 1M or less of homes in the entire US senior household count that are still on CO powered POTS and maybe 50% of that 1M have an AARP member. So AARP is going all out for like 2% of their membership over a problem that will go away on its own by the time AARP comes up with solutions.

 

[redstonemason]

"the term "landline" hasn't meant CO powered POTS for the last 20 years".

I'll give you that. But 5mAmps at -48VDC and 96V AC ringing was achieved on a 5 cent chip 40 years ago, And a Bell 202T signal after the 2nd ring delivered caller display nicely. So how can modern codecs and dac's not do the same for folks around 100 years old.

 

[wardmundy]

Don't know where this picture actually comes from but the fact that it's a tech cutting a line that isn't attached to anything on the other end is pretty great.

Uh. Do you think he might have already disconnected the wire that ran to the house from the pole and left it dangling in the street when the photo was taken? I doubt he was simply helping the town with street maintenance.

 

[Samot]

Uh. Do you think he might have already disconnected the wire that ran to the house from the pole and left it dangling in the street when the photo was taken? I doubt he was simply helping the town with street maintenance.

Well he also could be replacing a line after bad weather or repairing a down line. It's not like aerial lines aren't known for being knocked down. Maybe it got knocked down, was already shut down so it is being removed. Lots of options with no context of the photo.

Also no one is sending out a tech to cut wires at individual homes when shutting down copper infrastructure. That stuff is going to sit there for a long time before it becomes financially viable to do actual removal. It's expensive to do removal so unless there is a reason for it right now, like the pole owner wants connection space back....that image isn't the reality of the copper shutdown.

 

[kenn10]

Come on guys! Its just a picture. Quit arguing about stupid "what if is and is not." There are many more things that can use your intellectual abilities other than arguing about landlines and a stupid picture. @Samot, you can never resist when someone is trolling.

From Grok.com:

AARP has published articles (and engaged in advocacy) about landlines—especially traditional copper-based ones—being phased out or disconnected, but there is no clear evidence of a specific paid ad or TV commercial focused on this.

Key examples include

• “What Retiring Copper Phone Lines Means for Older Adults” (also titled along the lines of “What Replacing Copper Telephone Lines Means for Older Customers”), published December 8, 2025, by Edward C. Baig on aarp.org. It covers the ongoing shift away from aging copper landlines to fiber, VoIP, and cellular alternatives; the risks for older adults who still rely on them (including for 911 and during power outages); backup battery needs; and AARP’s push for safeguards so the transition doesn’t leave people without reliable service.
• Other related AARP pieces discuss whether/how to drop a landline, keeping your number when switching, reliability concerns, and cost trends (e.g., “Is It Finally Time to Give Up My Landline Phone?”, “How to Ditch Your Landline and Keep Your Number”, and “Is It Safe to Finally Get Rid of Your Landline?”).

AARP has also advocated on the issue, such as opposing AT&T’s petition in California to end traditional landline service in rural areas (citing impacts on older adults and emergency access) and filing comments with the FCC on copper retirement, emphasizing protections for older adults and rural residents, reliable 911 access, consumer notice, and affordable alternatives.

Their affiliate Senior Planet from AARP has offered classes/resources explaining the copper-to-modern network transition. No prominent national ad campaign specifically about landline disconnections turned up in searches (AARP’s known ads/PSAs more commonly focus on fraud prevention, retirement planning, membership, etc.).

In short: strong coverage via articles and policy work, but not a dedicated ad. You can find the main recent article on aarp.org by searching for the copper/landline phase-out piece.