R.I.P. Kazoo

[krzykat]

4.3 Is the latest viable open platform from them at this time.

 

[KNERD]

4.3 Is the latest viable open platform from them at this time.

Yes.

 

[fmateo05]

4.3 Is the latest viable open platform from them at this time.

There will be kazoo 4.3 for a while.. Let 's stay with it...

 

[fmateo05]

I have a new 'contribution' for there. I am planning to start applying charges to each idea or contribution that may help to their platform; it is a viable method to "charge back" to open core model. For now it is low cost as starting point. I know there is alternate information and help using a google search. But instead of telling "RTMF and STFW" i would prefer to charge as I can. What do you think about that?

 

[krzykat]

I think for you charging for your knowledge is fair. Especially on a product like Kazoo that most folks here don't know a lot about. If you can make it so that the Kazoo works for failover for those with many FreePBX systems, I think people would gladly pay.

 

[KNERD]

I don;t even think people at Kazoo know much, or not telling. Even their videos on Kazoo are vague.

 

[fmateo05]

I don;t even think people at Kazoo know much, or not telling. Even their videos on Kazoo are vague.

So hatred... I did some videos and because of that, earned some customers. That is not a problem

 

[KNERD]

They were even touting integration OneBill with Kazoo. But when I asked them about integration of the two, not a peep from them. Why? They are pimping their paid hosted services.

 

[krzykat]

Why? They are pimping their paid hosted services.

That's 100% the issue. And their pricing model just doesn't make their hosted solution good for many. They don't even have PJSIP because then multiple devices registered to same extension and that messes with their pricing model. They could get so many people interested if they made it more affordable, but when they talk like starting prices of $1,000 / month Plus Plus Plus ... it just gets cost prohibitive. Want it hosted on your own equipment and their supporting it? Make that over $5K / month.

 

[fmateo05]

That's 100% the issue. And their pricing model just doesn't make their hosted solution good for many. They don't even have PJSIP because then multiple devices registered to same extension and that messes with their pricing model. They could get so many people interested if they made it more affordable, but when they talk like starting prices of $1,000 / month Plus Plus Plus ... it just gets cost prohibitive. Want it hosted on your own equipment and their supporting it? Make that over $5K / month.

I have an email that they replied to me and they explained similar to this. Also On your own infrastructure starting from $10K. My policy to them changed recently. They enjoy when you share your knowledge to them, for later close it using a more mature code or implementation when depending of that idea. My policy change is that i will increase my low profile and wont share any knowledge to their community. That is currently my recent post there. They reacted like "Oh My. that shame...".

Also, for call queues i have found a workaround and currently i am testing it. It will not work direclty as kazoo/monster-ui App; but it will work as expected when routing calls to queue(s). It may be asterisk based, or FS based; anyway you reach similar result.

 

[KNERD]

That's 100% the issue. And their pricing model just doesn't make their hosted solution good for many. They don't even have PJSIP because then multiple devices registered to same extension and that messes with their pricing model. They could get so many people interested if they made it more affordable, but when they talk like starting prices of $1,000 / month Plus Plus Plus ... it just gets cost prohibitive. Want it hosted on your own equipment and their supporting it? Make that over $5K / month.

Well, they don't need PJSIP as it is not Asterisk based. Instead they use FreeSwitch which has their on SIP library called SOFIA which can do multiple devices to the same extension.

 

[KNERD]

I have an email that they replied to me and they explained similar to this. Also On your own infrastructure starting from $10K. My policy to them changed recently. They enjoy when you share your knowledge to them, for later close it using a more mature code or implementation when depending of that idea. My policy change is that i will increase my low profile and wont share any knowledge to their community. That is currently my recent post there. They reacted like "Oh My. that shame...".

Also, for call queues i have found a workaround and currently i am testing it. It will not work direclty as kazoo/monster-ui App; but it will work as expected when routing calls to queue(s). It may be asterisk based, or FS based; anyway you reach similar result.

I recall there was a Kazoo Con a few years ago where they posted a how-to

Even that was limited. If you look at their, channel the videos over the years went from how-tos to all sales pitches.

 

[krzykat]

Even that was limited. If you look at their, channel the videos over the years went from how-tos to all sales pitches.

Yes, pretty sad. Really is a nice concept of a product, but I too think they've taken the product in a direction that wasn't the original intention.

 

[fmateo05]

I was just thinking. Which person or company is able to release at least $2k monthly just for x or y feature?

They believe that is too easy to pay that money amount. Because of that it's time to do some workarounds to reach the required feature. They just ignore when someone from Open Source community create an app that solve the issue for example. That is not fair.

 

[krzykat]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "Not Fair". Look at our own ecosystem that most people here use and what FreePBX has done. Many PRO items are just hacks that others have come up with that they've refined and decided to sell. Paging Pro, Parking Pro, etc. etc. ... I don't have an issue with them doing this, but when others come up with this I have an issue when they purposely try to block it. Since Kazoo (at least 4.3) and FreePBX are open source, its up to the person doing the install / setup / programmer to hack it to do what they want. I've come up with my own Blacklist Pro that blows away what FreePBX currently has (sends email alerts when a block is done, date/time stamps it, and even who did it). Now if my license say's you can use it for your own commercial purposes, then they could. Typically what I've seen companies do is come to an agreement with the developer, and have them pull it from public market and then make it private.
Anyhow, I think FreePBX has done it decent (at times) - and there is certainly an opportunity to have a public / private model. FreePBX has done it, RedHat, Wordpress, ... there are many models out there. I think the best model is you make something open to the point that it entices many many many people to use it. Then let them make their own modules.... I think best is you make one that gives you a taste of a good feature (for example as we've mentioned here, Parking Lots), then you tweak it a bit and make something called Parking Pro with additional features, and then you charge for that. You also can make money by supporting the product with professional support tickets. That's great for them because then you have someone else paying for your R&D of your open source software.

 

[KNERD]

I think what he is saying is FreePBX does offer open source modules to add in which can accomplish most things you need but if you need more advanced features then they have commercial options.

It seems the 2600Hz people are getting into less open source and more about making money. While they do answer questions, but they are generally about basic stuff. Start getting into advanced, and they ignore you. At least the FreePBX people are on their forum actively answering questions, and if you just don't get it, you can open a ticket and pay them.

I know of two open source VoIP billing systems in which the creators would not even answer a single question unless you three money at them. The people who did help you out were fellow users. That is very sad. One of them was eventually abandoned, and the other, I don't know. After getting the cold should experience from the creators about asking questions, I was gone.

Seems 2600Hz is going this route.

 

[krzykat]

I think what he is saying is FreePBX does offer open source modules to add in which can accomplish most things you need but if you need more advanced features then they have commercial options.

It seems the 2600Hz people are getting into less open source and more about making money. While they do answer questions, but they are generally about basic stuff. Start getting into advanced, and they ignore you. At least the FreePBX people are on their forum actively answering questions, and if you just don't get it, you can open a ticket and pay them.

I know of two open source VoIP billing systems in which the creators would not even answer a single question unless you three money at them. The people who did help you out were fellow users. That is very sad. One of them was eventually abandoned, and the other, I don't know. After getting the cold should experience from the creators about asking questions, I was gone.

Seems 2600Hz is going this route.

I'm afraid you're right, but I hope you're wrong. I just don't think they see the bigger picture and how much money they could make if they did make it more open and got some of that consulting money. Reminds me a bit of fusionpbx.

 

[wardmundy]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "Not Fair". Look at our own ecosystem that most people here use and what FreePBX has done. Many PRO items are just hacks that others have come up with that they've refined and decided to sell. Paging Pro, Parking Pro, etc. etc. ... I don't have an issue with them doing this, but when others come up with this I have an issue when they purposely try to block it. Since Kazoo (at least 4.3) and FreePBX are open source, its up to the person doing the install / setup / programmer to hack it to do what they want. I've come up with my own Blacklist Pro that blows away what FreePBX currently has (sends email alerts when a block is done, date/time stamps it, and even who did it). Now if my license say's you can use it for your own commercial purposes, then they could. Typically what I've seen companies do is come to an agreement with the developer, and have them pull it from public market and then make it private.
Anyhow, I think FreePBX has done it decent (at times) - and there is certainly an opportunity to have a public / private model. FreePBX has done it, RedHat, Wordpress, ... there are many models out there. I think the best model is you make something open to the point that it entices many many many people to use it. Then let them make their own modules.... I think best is you make one that gives you a taste of a good feature (for example as we've mentioned here, Parking Lots), then you tweak it a bit and make something called Parking Pro with additional features, and then you charge for that. You also can make money by supporting the product with professional support tickets. That's great for them because then you have someone else paying for your R&D of your open source software.

I agree with much of what you've said. The problem I have is that these commercial spinoffs have encrypted code so it's almost impossible to determine whether they've included GPL code in their new modules. I'm not suggesting they have, but I wouldn't be surprised either. The only way you'd ever find out is if someone on the inside or formerly on the inside spilled the beans. And then there's the question of whether the original GPL code was owned by the same company that released the commercial module. In that case, there would be no GPL violation as I read the language of the license.

 

[kenn10]

If only FreePBX had continued the initial pursuit to front-end FreeSwitch. It would be fun if the guys at ClearlyIP continued that work.

 

[krzykat]

Good comment @kenn10 - wish they'd have a prettier GUI for end users.