Aastra 57i still tops?

[thunderheart]

Well, I've really tried but our GXP-2000's just aren't cuttin' it and I'm gonna have to come up something else. Seems to be alot of chatter here on the forums related to problems with the 57i's. Just wondering if the PIAF guys and others here still feel like the 57i is the best choice.

Honestly, I don't really need a ton of fancy features, just REALLY good voice quality. As long as I have 4 lines and enough BLF capable programmable buttons to monitor three other extensions and our 4 space parking lot I'll be happy.

However, what I can't accept is calls that result in bursts of static when I speak, or muting of the other guys voice when I speak or echo or other spastic behavior. My office mates (and particularly my business partner) are about ready to lynch me and re-install our old key system.

Suggestions which might help me avoid the premature stretching of my neck would really be appreciated.

Dallas

 

[Mr. Asdf]

I'm pretty new to this stuff, but aren't most of those problems to do with PSTN lines and echo cancellation?

I have some 57i's though and think they're pretty nice. The only thing I think I can blame on them is I've heard reports of occasional momentary static.

 

[TheShniz]

Well.................. different phones for different people, there is no 'best choice'.

1.)

All manufacturers have their firmware issues from time to time, and Aastra is among the best here (tho definately not without blemish)... the only issues I can really attest to Aastra, is we tend to notice more DOA's for the cordless handset of the 480iCT's and 57iCT's than normal. Other than this, they tend to be very solid, well constructed telephones.

2.)

If you're looking for voice quality, audiophiles will dictate Polycom's new g722 phones (aka HD Audio)... and they really are that good (although for extension to extension only). I'd also put Cisco here of course, as they too have superb audio quality by far. If I were to pick between the two, I'd probably pick Cisco if only cuz I think Polycom's phones are an eyesore (personal preference).

3.)

If you're looking for BLF's, solid & simple... you're definately gonna want a Snom or Aastra. I mention Snom first, as their major selling point (to me anyways) is the twelve (12) programmable buttons, far more than any other... however Aastra definately has it's XML groove going, so you can enjoy some of their apps.

4.)

Grandstream... well, let's just say they're good for the bottom of the barrel customers who need an absolute minimum cost, sacrificing quality and all that goes with it. In contrast, the GXV-3000 holds a very special position as best (and only) real videophone... Video Mail is definately cool too!

 

[someguysname]

I will second the Cisco choice.

I use a mixture of 7940's and 7960's using a Cisco 2851 with a 4 port VIC as the PSTN gateway here at home and the setup sounds awesome. Absolutely no echo whatsoever even way out here in the country where line problems are a constant battle. The 2851 doubles (triples?) as my internet router and my IDS. It has CME installed on it, but I dont use it....I use the XML services offered by Berbee to give me stock quotes and weather right from the phone...

If you're looking for great sound quality, you cant go wrong with Cisco phones....

 

[jmullinix]

I am with Shniz on the Snom's. The 360 is a solid, 12 line phone and the 300 is a great 4-line phone. The 300 has limited buttons, so it won't do your parking lot BLF's.

 

[tusc]

FYI,

all the latest Snoms from the 300 to the 370 support G.722 HD audio. Also, a feature not commonly found on phones: the 370 has support for tunneling over OpenVPN!

http://wiki.snom.com/Networking/VPN

 

[TheShniz]

FYI, all the latest Snoms from the 300 to the 370 support G.722 HD audio.

^^^ You brought up an excellent point here, but as far as I'm aware requires the new klarVoice handset (which I've not yet tried myself)... I think the handset runs ~$30 if I remember right.

::updated::
http://www.snom.com/en/products/accessories/snom-klarvoice-handset/

 

[jroper]

Hi

I cannot imagine that the GXP2000's are of such poor quality that they are causing the problems you mention. I use GXP2000's (not through choice) and they are usually acceptable.

I think you need to be checking somewhere else first to see where the problems are coming from, because I'm not entirely sure its the phones.

Joe

 

[thunderheart]

Yeah that worries me

Joe,

I also felt like there must be a better explanation than just 'grandstream sux' but I'm out of ideas. I can't see it being my box as it has more than adequate horsepower and a well behaved and speedy LAN. My Rhino 4-port card is properly installed and configured (according to James) and the POTS lines sound great with a standard analog phone plugged in. I have ulaw selected by both the trunks and the phones. What else?

Another thing I've noticed is that the recordings of the problem calls don't have the static or other audio weirdness. What the heck else could it be? As the problem is intermittent (some calls sound great, others really bad) it is frustrating to trouble shoot. I personally don't like to start implementing possible solutions when I don't understand the problem and just hope I hit on the right fix. I'd really appreciate any ideas you guys have.

Dallas

 

[cosmicwombat]

An inexpesive way to test...

Is to use softphones. Possibly playing a tone from one to another, changing codecs and testing....

Could there be an external cause? A cell phone near some equipment? A bad NIC on one the the network nodes?

 

[TheShniz]

For troubleshooting, don't forget... Wireshark is your friend

 

[jroper]

I wonder if power could be the issue.

See page 20 of TOFT ed. 2

http://downloads.oreilly.com/books/9780596510480.pdf

Joe

 

[tusc]

^^^ You brought up an excellent point here, but as far as I'm aware requires the new klarVoice handset (which I've not yet tried myself)... I think the handset runs ~$30 if I remember right.

::updated::
http://www.snom.com/en/products/accessories/snom-klarvoice-handset/

Yeah, I did see that. Cisco has a similar requirement with their new wideband phones: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/col.../ps8537/prod_white_paper0900aecd806fa57a.html

Nevertheless, I've tried G.722 on my 370 without the Klarvoice handset and it's still noticeably better compared to G.711. Also, the phone does have a speakerphone which seems to work well with G.722.

 

[thunderheart]

Good points Robert

Thanx Robert. Certainly we keep our cells on our hips while using the phones ... could be an issue. I'll test to see if that causes a problem. If there was a bad NIC involved I would expect my router to show problems on the stats page but it's clean as a whistle.

I'll tell ya I really don't want to blame this on my Grandstreams. I kinda like 'em. But I've got to fix these audio problems somehow. The intermittent nature of the problem is really exasperating.

Dallas

 

[jehowe]

One thing to remember is that IP wideband (Snom's Klarvoice, Polycom's HD voice) is based off the G.722 codec. No ITSP's that I'm aware of support it yet, so one can really only take advantage of this 'in-house', and only with those extensions that also have G.722 capable phones.

I have limited experience with Polycom, but can attest to their excellent build and sound quality. My beef was with getting them setup, which hopefully has changed. I personally use and recommend both Snom and Aastra's. Both are probably a touch under Polycom in audio quality, but do just about everything very, very well and are so darn easy to setup.

 

[thunderheart]

You may be on to something

Joe,

I've often wondered about the PSU in this system. I brought one of the GXP2000's home tonight and set it up on my VOIP only home machine. I made a number of test calls and the quality was very good. None of the ugliness I've encountered on the production box in the office.

Both of these machines have identical case/psu combinations but the difference is that the production box has a 4 port FXO card and all calls are via those trunks. I wonder if the cheapo PSU in these machines is marginal and the FXO card is suffering as a consequence.

I've been meaning to change it out anyway so does anyone have a recommendation for a good brand / model? I see a couple of ThermalTaki units in the 400 to 500 watt range that are well reviewed.

Dallas

 

[TheShniz]

The Power Supply (PSU) is the single, most important component in ANY computer when it comes 2 stability, reliability, & longevity. The PSU doesn't just kill itself... but you winde up start having to replace ALL your components in a PC. If 1x or more of it's power rails are fluctuating or has spikes or shortages, your components is what eats that! In fact, you usually replace the components long before the PSU finally craps out because it's 'still providing power', but that power is putting everything to the crapper!

My very strong bias: Enermax

Due to long history and excellent track record in server environments where stability is king, but would have no problem getting/trying a couple other manufacturers. In terms of power output: Galaxy > Infinity > Liberty.
If you buy a cheap case (that you think is pretty) w/ a PSU, keep the case... but shelve the PSU or give it to granny! It would be better that you get slower CPU/RAM/etc and a high quality PSU in the long run than fast components at the cost of a poor PSU. Yes, you can probably pick up a "680Watt" PSU for $30 from somewhere if you really wanted to, but do you really want to... NO!!!

General Rule of Thumb:
You can usually tell the quality of a PSU's components by its weight! A cheap PSU will be as light as a feather, while one worth having will be significantly heavier.

Before you go jumping on the bandwagon of high wattage PSU's, remember that this is a server... it does NOT have Multiple CPU's, Triple-SLI, Crossfire, 15x Drives, or the like. You do NOT need a big powersupply. You do NOT need a 400-500Watt power supply, when the smallest will do just fine.

Quick search @ NewEgg gives...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194032
...there are lower-wattage ones that would serve you even better, but I'm a big fan of their 120mm fans (no noise, high cfm)

( you'll never catch me w/ a Walmart special )

::updated::

Oh, btw, I seriously doubt a faulty PSU is gonna cause static for digitized-anything... I just care greatly about quality PSU's.

 

[jroper]

Hi

When it comes down to it, the GXP2000 is a computer as well, so it could be subject to dirty power at your work as well. Try plugging a phone into a power smoothed UPS at work, and see if things change. If they do, then its time to go and get a POE switch and plug it into your UPS.

You have proved that the voice quality is fine on your home machine, so that would suggest that the phone is OK, and paying a lot of money for a load of new phones may not get to the nub of your problems.

Is there a problem between the grandstreams - try IP to IP calling - press the round button and arrow down to the menu for IP to IP calling, so you can cut the PBX out of the equation.

Is the problem prevelant on your PSTN lines, or is it there on all calls.

If you hook your Grandstream into the the work PBX, from home, remotely (assuming that NAT allows you to do so) is there still problems.

Basically, its a question of elimination, and I think that you have eliminated the phone.

Joe

 

[thunderheart]

Yep, I hear ya

J,

I certainly agree that a good power supply is top priority, especially in mission critical systems. Although I do have to say that I've run many scratch-built machines on stock PSU's for 5,6,7 years without issue. I think if you look at two units with the same power rating on the individual rails, the problem with the cheaper units is consistancy.

In this particular case, my production PBX grew out of an experiment. I built up 3 identical machines pretty much as cheaply as possible when I had to replace a set of aging servers at my house. One was intended to replace a VERY old K5-233 machine that ran my router/firewall, another was an old P3 box I used for file/print sharing and a third was to replace my Linksys PAP2 that had provided excellent service to Vonage. Eventually, I made the file server a dual purpose box with PIAF and Samba leaving me with a third machine. When the need arose at work I took that box and added a 4 port FXO card and some extra memory, but I never got around to changing the PSU.

Even if the PSU isn't the root of the audio problems I'm having, it should certainly be replaced in this box. The case I bought was cheap but I didn't really buy it for that reason. I bought it because it was the smallest Mini-ATX case Tigerdirect had on the floor (I live near their Durham NC retail center) and I was looking for compact. The PSU is pretty darn cheesy.

Seems like I owned a couple of Evermax PSU's in the past. I believe they came in some higher end cases I bought when I built up a bunch of machines for a local business years ago. Thanks for the recommendation and good advice.

Dallas

 

[thunderheart]

When it comes down to it, the GXP2000 is a computer as well, so it could be subject to dirty power at your work as well. Try plugging a phone into a power smoothed UPS at work, and see if things change. If they do, then its time to go and get a POE switch and plug it into your UPS.

Is there a problem between the grandstreams - try IP to IP calling - press the round button and arrow down to the menu for IP to IP calling, so you can cut the PBX out of the equation.

Is the problem prevelant on your PSTN lines, or is it there on all calls.

If you hook your Grandstream into the the work PBX, from home, remotely (assuming that NAT allows you to do so) is there still problems.

Basically, its a question of elimination, and I think that you have eliminated the phone.

Joe

Dirty power on the mains is definitely a possibility. I've mentioned the issues we have encountered during electrical storms in other threads. Our electrical subcontractor is treating the office to breakfast in the morning so I'll ask him if he can look at it for me.

Calls between extensions in the office are NEVER affected. Sound quality is excellent. Then again in a 20' x 22' office you can converse in a normal voice without the need of a telephone.

The problems pretty much only occur on PSTN lines because that is almost all we use. We do have an IAX trunk but only incoming and only one customer has the DID. Maybe 2-3 calls a day average. Also with the really low bandwidth DSL line we have here in the styx, I would blame that for problems on the VOIP line first.

Really, I have felt like the problem was with the FXO card from the beginning. Some of the behavior is really strange and I can actually affect it by changing values in the Rhino driver. There is a struct in there with a member for "EC NLP Type". The range of values is 0-3 and James has had me try all four with differing though unacceptable results. I'm wondering if it is time to RMA that thing.

I think you're right though that I'm close to exonerating the GXPs.

Dallas