Best ATA for 6+ lines

[jrubins]

Ok, I'm trying to setup a small business VOIP system. I originally had two Dlink DVG-1402s. Unfortunately, that only provides 4 analog phone lines. I need 6. I don't want to order more Dlinks, because... they suck. They just give the busy signal after being used for 5 minutes. Unacceptable.

So, now I want to replace those and get some more lines.
I'm thinking either grandstream gxw-4008 as seen here or the linksys SPA-8000 as seen here. The other option would be 3 linksys PAP-2Tna or 3 Linksys 2102.

Does anyone have any recommendations?
I really need something that can handle the use (abuse?) of a small business with many phone calls coming in.
This device failing just isn't an option.

Thanks for the help,
James

EDIT: one feature I'd REALLY like is Message Waiting Indicators. My phones have MWI, and I think that would be a really useful feature. But I'd sacrifice it at the altar of robustness.

 

[kenn10]

If using an internal card such as the Digium or other makes is not an option, I'd opt for the Linksys. They just do things right. You don't want a stack of PAP2T's or other ATA's as it makes for a messy install.

Grandstream devices still seem to be a crap-shoot as the quality is not what many people expect.

Another option is the Xorcom Astribank which gives you both FXO and FXS capabilities over a USB connected device. Is supports the Zaptel functions including message waiting lights.

 

[Alex728]

I take it you are talking about "lines" as in extensions rather than trunks (FXO)

if the Linksys SPA8000 is as configurable and robust as the PAP2T ATA's I'd use that

Then again I am in England and am fussy about phones sounding like British ones as much as possible and not American or European ones...

We have 3 x PAP2T ATAs on my office system and they work well - as for the tidiness or otherwise, who goes poking into the telecom closet other than yourself, plus (if plugging into existing network cabling) these are small and unobtrusive enough to hide away in corners / under desks etc.. (the SPA8000 wasn't easily available in England when I first specified the system anyway)

they certainly provide the FSK based MWI signals for some Dect phones and you can set the "MWI dial tone" as well..

 

[jrubins]

I take it you are talking about "lines" as in extensions rather than trunks (FXO)

if the Linksys SPA8000 is as configurable and robust as the PAP2T ATA's I'd use that

Then again I am in England and am fussy about phones sounding like British ones as much as possible and not American or European ones...

We have 3 x PAP2T ATAs on my office system and they work well - as for the tidiness or otherwise, who goes poking into the telecom closet other than yourself, plus (if plugging into existing network cabling) these are small and unobtrusive enough to hide away in corners / under desks etc.. (the SPA8000 wasn't easily available in England when I first specified the system anyway)

they certainly provide the FSK based MWI signals for some Dect phones and you can set the "MWI dial tone" as well..

I do mean extensions.
Thanks for the advice, I want the 8000 because, by the time I've purchased 6 extensions worth of pap2t, I've paid for the single larger unit, which will also simplify the installation.

 

[gbrook]

I have used an SPA8000 for several months now and have had no issues at all

Cheers
Garry

 

[jrubins]

Ok, I decided to try the spa-8000, I'll keep you posted on how that goes

 

[kenn10]

I you haven't already done so, check out this link for the SPA8000. http://www.ipphone-warehouse.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=spa8000-g1

Looks like pricing is very competitive on these units.

 

[Alex728]

Any other users / feedback about the SPA8000? I have two more PABX to build soon and am considering these for 8 x analogue extensions.

My only concern is that its not 100% identical to the PAP2T as the 8 ports have some internal NAT / PAT "router", although the impression I get from Google this apparently only is a problem if you wanted 8 separate VOIP providers....

but all I want is 8 individual FXS extensions (I assume I would have to use a different SIP port for each such as 5060 to 5077?)

 

[jroper]

Hi

Unless there is good reason, I'd stick with VoIP phones, using analogue handsets via an ATA on the PBX is a dissatisfactory experience.

Joe

 

[tshif]

Using analog phones with ATAs is from the days of Vonage/Sun Rocket/Et all. It can work of course, but...

Most people find it easier to use features like transfer, hold, park, conference and the like when there are dedicated buttons on the phone for these functions. I have rarely met a user who can reliably even put a call on hold when using an ATA/Analog.

I am curious - have you considered voip phones in this deployment? I actually very curious to learn what factors are causing you to prefer analog w/ata.

tshif

 

[jrubins]

Hi there, I went with the SPA 8000, and thus far it's been pretty solid.
There are a few foibles: no hold or transfer of calling, but for my deployment those features were completely unnecessary.

I have a couple of suggestions:
make sure you have adequate ventilation. That puppy needs to breathe! It has a fan on the side, which is better than most outboard ATAs, but it still needs space. A wire rack would probably be the best.

The setup is a bit tedious because there are about 5million options you could mess with (read: screw up). But stick to the basics and it'll work fine.

And be sure you know you to give it a reboot. If it does stick, sometimes you gotta switch it off and back on...really more of an issue for the technophobe end user, but still something to make them aware of.

If this is for the home, I'd say the 8000 is pretty darn good for the price.

 

[jrubins]

Using analog phones with ATAs is from the days of Vonage/Sun Rocket/Et all. It can work of course, but...

Most people find it easier to use features like transfer, hold, park, conference and the like when there are dedicated buttons on the phone for these functions. I have rarely met a user who can reliably even put a call on hold when using an ATA/Analog.

I am curious - have you considered voip phones in this deployment? I actually very curious to learn what factors are causing you to prefer analog w/ata.

tshif

Many users don't need to transfer or put people on hold. The business I installed the PBX in question in is a hair salon, who are essentially 6 separate businesses under one roof.

The problem with voip phones (in my particular case) was that A) they are ridiculously expensive and B) have no viable cordless models.

There are definitely problems with ATAs, but on the whole, if you are installing a PBX in a business so they can save money with VOIP, then getting them to pay off thousands of dollars in equipment (phones, computers, wiring, and other accoutrements) may be a bitter pill to swallow.

Now, if this were a new business, then it makes sense to run the cat5 and add phones as needed, but doing this all at once can be an undue burden on a small business or family.

Just thought I'd enlighten you as to my situation and why I chose the equipment I did. I can't speak for any other users, but that's why I chose that equipment.

It may be more helpful, rather than saying "all ata's are crap" to say, "what about a zap card".

 

[Alex728]

I do use Linksys SPA942's for some users (I have one on my desk now and the marketing manager has another) - in the office I work in I had specific requests for analogue phones - particularly DECT from other users who were given a choice and shown the Linksys and other VOIP sets.

They simply did not want the confusing buttons and displays of IP phones.

SIP DECT phones are way expensive and not readily available in England.

These aren't high tech businesses but healthcare facilities in a rural area of England.

Budgets are limited, many staff are wary of overly "complex" technology and some do not have English as their first language. Our users have all managed to get transfers and call hold working once I ensured the signalling protocols were being picked up correctly by the ATA's (and it requires no more keypresses than using the softkeys on my SPA942)

Also for health reasons some areas of the site (kitchens, treatment rooms) would be best served by rugged easy to clean phones - some of which even have "antibacterial" coatings, but are mostly provided as analogue sets.

 

[Alex728]

Hi there, I went with the SPA 8000, and thus far it's been pretty solid.
There are a few foibles: no hold or transfer of calling, but for my deployment those features were completely unnecessary.

if anyone does want it in the long run, have you tried adjusting the "hook flash timer min/max?" had to use min 0.06 and max 0.2 - its possible you have got "european" cordless phones with the R button rather than flash (this is a much shorter signal).

 

[jrubins]

have you tried adjusting the "hook flash timer min/max?" had to use min 0.06 and max 0.2 - its possible you have got "european" cordless phones with the R button rather than flash (this is a much shorter signal).

Thanks, but it's definitely flash. I went to Circuit City and picked out the phones with my client (another advantage of ATAs... off the shelf the hardware).

I'll check the hook timer and see. As I said before, those features are so low priority for my clients.
Thanks for the advice, though

 

[Alex728]

and be sure you know you to give it a reboot. If it does stick, sometimes you gotta switch it off and back on...really more of an issue for the technophobe end user, but still something to make them aware of.

This and not recognising flash/recall are the only concerns of mine and would be a showstopper unfortunately and a great shame considering that most other Linksys kit (ATA's or VOIP phones) is now fairly solid.

Perhaps the product just isn't mature yet.

The only time I have had a PAP2T glitch was the one I use for my two remote extensions at home deregistering and this was during appalling weather where there may well have been glitches in both the broadband and the mains electricity.

Bear in mind these businesses were/are currently using consumer grade DECT telephone sets connected to BT Featurelines, anything is a step upward.

I may deploy more IP phones in the next site but I expect there will still be analogue extensions in some areas.

Even with the Linksys SPA942 being particularly good value for its feature set, the same cost will equip two desk positions with DECT cordless phones...

 

[jrubins]

This and not recognising flash/recall are the only concerns of mine and would be a showstopper unfortunately and a great shame considering that most other Linksys kit (ATA's or VOIP phones) is now fairly solid.

Perhaps the product just isn't mature yet.

The only time I have had a PAP2T glitch was the one I use for my two remote extensions at home deregistering and this was during appalling weather where there may well have been glitches in both the broadband and the mains electricity.

Bear in mind these businesses were/are currently using consumer grade DECT telephone sets connected to BT Featurelines, anything is a step upward.

I may deploy more IP phones in the next site but I expect there will still be analogue extensions in some areas.

Even with the Linksys SPA942 being particularly good value for its feature set, the same cost will equip two desk positions with DECT cordless phones...

It's really not that bad. I've had to instruct a reboot maybe 4 times over the past 6 months.
It's tough to say if it's the cable modem, computer, router or ATA to blame though.
Now that there is a fan blowing in the equipment closet blowing constantly, I've had no problems.

 

[tshif]

It may be more helpful, rather than saying "all ata's are crap" to say, "what about a zap card".

Funny - I dont remember saying that.

It was good to hear your reasoning - sounds perfectly valid to me. You seem a little hostile - I was merely wondering about your reasoning. I LIKE to understand other peoples viewpoints. Thanks for sharing -

tshif

 

[jrubins]

Funny - I dont remember saying that.

It was good to hear your reasoning - sounds perfectly valid to me. You seem a little hostile - I was merely wondering about your reasoning. I LIKE to understand other peoples viewpoints. Thanks for sharing -

tshif

LOL, sorry, I'm not hostile, I promise.
I just got lots of advice from people being 'helpful' saying "don't get an ATA" when I asked "what's the best ATA".
I just don't think that's terribly helpful, when my client wants analog phones.

Personally, I would like to see more ATAs that can do what the SPA-8000 does. Their robustness is lacking a bit, but overall, the features and price of an ATA are pretty darn good. For the price of 1, maybe 2 ipphones, I've got 6 extensions in the building.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm attacking you personally... really, I'm not. Just expressing my frustrations at the community when I think the community would rather ignore a valuable part of the business, namely home and small business users.

If we want * to be successful, I think that we need to look at how to make * easier to install, set up, and use for home users.

PIAF is a great step towards those goals, but the endpoints really still leave the home/casual/small business user scratching their heads.

 

[Alex728]

I certainly don't blame people for being wary of cheaper ATA's but I have a lot of experience with traditional telecoms and Linksys definitely come across as "best of breed", as they also don't assume you will be using a US analogue set and are content with American progress tones, ring patterns and caller ID protocols

Both for SME's and home / home office usage a lot of people want "just a telephone".

Even in the more high tech places I have worked in keysets were only provided to managers for the "bling" factor and half of them didn't know how to use the buttons on them anyway. In some environments there is also a clear security advantage in running just telecom cable to a room (with an extension with limited dialling, another easy thing to do with Linksys kit) than a CAT5LAN cable where some random could quietly plug in a laptop.

I know as engineers we all like the latest toys and as I do admire things like a phone with a massive colour display you can call up the weather on, but unfortunately in many cases the budget just isn't there (or I would have got a SPA962 for my desk )