Moving server to new PIAF version

[isaacl]

Hi all.
I had a phone server network card go recently (for some reason, I had it happen twice in the past few months - just the network card stopped working), so I ended up moving it over to another box I had, and restoring my most recent FreePBX backup.
The original box was running PIAF 1.7.5.7.1 with Incredible PBX 1.8.
I was originally planning on setting up the new PBXIAF and IncreiblePBX versions on the new box, and then gradually moving things over until the new box was ready to go.
Now that I've had to use the new box for the old version, I want to still try to set up the new version, but I'm limited in how I can do it, since I only have one box.
So I was thinking of setting up the latest PBXIAF/IncrediblePBX on a virtual machine (VMWare) on a Windows machine, and then working on moving all my settings over to that VM. Once that's complete, I'll make a FreePBX backup, then install the latest version of PBXIAF/IncrediblePBX on the physical box, and then restore the FreePBX backup.
Does that make sense, and should that work?
Any input/suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks a lot!

 

[darmock]

U need to wait till the Incredible Backup 2.0 is released. That being said IT WILL NOT MIGRATE between PIAF versions AT ALL.

Thus if you set up a 2062x version in a vm you will have to set up an exact mirror on hardware except uninitialized.

So when it is released (RSN Real Soon Now) I would recommend you set up 2 vms exactly the same installs PIAF2062x/incredible/Purple or Red. Then configure one and get it working. Then run the incredible backup on the configured system. Copy the backup archive over to a spare server. Start up the standby vm with the unitialized version and run incredible restore. Then

TEST THE CRAP OUT OF IT!

Once you are sure it all works then scrub you real hardware and make the switch. Of course there is a method to move VMware <> Hardware but I suspect this will work better.

So the limitations are

1. Wont move between 175X and 206X at all.
2. Works only with 206X systems
3. Works only if you mirror the standby systems with the exact install pattern you used on the production server. Just the standby server is NOT CUSTOMIZED.
4. Thus your systems have to match

Asterisk 1.8 <> Asterisk 1.8
Freepbx 2.9 <> freepbx 2.9
Centos 6.2 <> Centos 6.2 (or higher)
Incredible PBX 3.X <> Incredible PBX 3.X
Incredible Fax 2.x <> Incredible Fax 2.x

At the moment we DO NOT SUPPORT freepbx 2.10 beta/rc however once it is fully release the backup program will automatically support it.

So if your production server has Centos 6.2/Asterisk 1.8/freepbx 2.9/incredible pbx 3/incredible fax 2 then your standby server MUST have the exact same install.

Sorry I harp on this but people fail to read! We have also produced extensive documentation with screen captures however no one reads those either.


The real problem is migrating incredible pbx stuff prior to 3.0 just too complex. The couple of times we did it we charged for it.


The incredible backup is in extended beta testing and soon as it has most of the bugs wrung out of it give it a try.


Tom

 

[isaacl]

Hey Tom -
Thanks for the reply.
I am aware that no backup can be restored between PBXIAF versions, which is why I would set up the VM for the new version, so I can set things up before putting it into production.
But to clarify - I want to set up a VM with the new PIAF2062x/IncrediblePBX system first, so I can set things up there, and then move it over to a hardware box.
My current configured production system is running PBXIAF 1.7.5.7.1 with IncrediblePBX 1.8, so I'll have to set up the new system and settings manually, which is why I want to be able to do that on the VM, without having to do that on the production box and take it out of commission for a few days.
Question is, is there any benefit to using the Incredible Backup/Restore system, as opposed to using a FreePBX backup/restore?
And shouldn't it work just to install, setup, and test on the VM (using PIAF2062x/IncrediblePBX), using an uninitialized version, then do a backup from there, and restore that backup on the hardware box, after doing the same PIAF2062x/IncrediblePBX install on that box? Is there any reason why I should need 2 VM's?
Sorry if I wasn't clear with how I planned to do things before...
Thanks a lot!

 

[darmock]

No worries

There are a number of things that freepbx backup does not backup related to incredible pbx which is why we developed the new version of incredible backup which DOES support incredible pbx/fax/travelman 2.0

So it may work the freepbx backup module is a good one. However when you load all of the "extras" on top it may not be the best choice for backing up and restoring incredible installs.

So up to you. The incredible backup 2.0 should be out in a few weeks. So it may fit in with your plans or not.


Tom

BTW you would be surprised the number of emails daily ward and get about "I want to go from asterisk 1.2 to asterisk 10 why don't you )^%#@&^(*@&%^ guys do this!!!!"

 

[isaacl]

Thanks for the info.

I figured that if I do the exact same installation, the only real differences should be with the FreePBX files and configuration, and the FreePBX backup/restore system has worked for me before, but there's no reason not to wait for the Incredible Backup script if it should work better.

It just takes me some time to get all the configuration and extensions set up correctly, but I don't think it will take that long to recreate - anyways, if it's a newer system, I'd rather re-configure everything so that I know I won't have any old and/or deprecated code and settings.
I'm actually in middle of setting up the VM now, since it will take me time to set things up anyway, and then when I'm finished with setting it up, I'll see where things are holding.

Just to check though - this should work with just one VM, right? The plan is to set up that VM, back it up, wipe the hardware box and install the same version of PIAF2062x/IncrediblePBX to that box, and then restore the backup from the VM.
And I'll keep the current system/box running with the older version, and copy the settings off that, so I shouldn't need another VM.

(And I'm just having the idea now to setup a VM with the same version and settings as the current box has, as a backup, in case it goes down again, for some reason...)

Thanks to both you and Ward (and anyone else on the team) for all the hard work, and for an awesome product!

 

[Hyksos]

He will correct me if I'm wrong but Tom is understanding quite well what you're trying to do and I agree with his suggestion of doing vm->vm->hardware and would recommend you reconsider even if he doesn't want to push it down your troat By coming back with it. He's sharing raw EXPERIENCE, free of assumptions and high expectations, good IT advice for production systems ;o

He's wise since if you set it up in the VM from scratch reading your old config and migrating it via your brain there is no reason it won't work in the new system. Maybe a couple of adjustments here and there and you'll be good.

But when you move that over the hardware box directly with a "program", even if it's just the freepbx backup like you initially wanted to do (which does not support incredible and family) you will essentially be trying that move for the first time, if something unexpected happen, you'll know it while/after your old stable box is gone.

The two changes are:
-Moving from old to new by hand
-Using a backup/restore solution to automatically migrate/reconfigure a box from scratch (either freepbx backup or the future program)

Doing it vm to (production)physical on your second move, that being the first time you use the "program" migration is skipping a testing phase. 2 moves in only 2 phases and your back in production, too quick to be considered cautious!

You are describing doing two migrations, he is simply suggesting that because you have two distinct major manipulations, each should have it's own distinct testing phase.

You're assuming the programmatic migration(which ever you choose) will succeed with flying colors, maybe but you should test it, just like you will test your first VM once your manual move is done.

And maybe VM->Hardware is exactly the same as VM->VM or hardware->hardware for the program but you're assuming that too on top of assuming the program will simply work as expected.

Tom though you were a cautious man and he's recommending cautious procedures.

Sorry for all the words, I hope it can help.

 

[isaacl]

Aha, so the second VM is just to test the migration.
I didn't understand that - thanks for clarifying.
That definitely makes sense, and can't hurt, so I'm going to do that.
Thanks again for the help, Tom, and thanks Hyksos for the clarification!

 

[Hyksos]

Tom is one of the many guys who should speak backward like Yoda...

So that we listen with the right frame of mind

I hope you take it as a joke, since it's just that.
And post your results back so that people can benefit from it if you can.

Doing it this way, I would add that you can test the freepbx backup method you wanted to try without risking anything and simply being able to test if it will behave like you want "around incredible", if not then you can wait for the upcoming tool from the piaf dev team.

 

[darmock]

Wise you are..........

hehe good belly laugh... thanks twas a bad day all around.

Actually you are spot on with your "translation" of my recommendations.... Too many years looking at multiple redundancies and working in IT systems "that cannot fail" IE: government work. I wrote a system for the big 6 banks in canada and they never could understand why I insisted on triple redundancies and whenever changes were rolled out they went into a test system first then it was debugged until stable then it was backed up and restored to similar but not identical hardware and then tested again. Never had problems with this system until they started going from test to production directly. Oh well it is not called paranoia if they are out to get you.... rather it is called murphyism.


Tom

Tom is one of the many guys who should speak backward like Yoda...

So that we listen with the right frame of mind

I hope you take it as a joke, since it's just that.
And post your results back so that people can benefit from it if you can.

Doing it this way, I would add that you can test the freepbx backup method you wanted to try without risking anything and simply being able to test if it will behave like you want "around incredible", if not then you can wait for the upcoming tool from the piaf dev team.

 

[isaacl]

Thanks all, and good idea Hyksos about also trying the FreePBX backup/restore - especially since I should be able to save a snapshot from the VM before I do anything, so as I try and work this out, I'll try to post back and let everyone (who may be interested) know how it went.
Already have one PBXIAF2/IncrediblePBX3/IncredibleFax2 VM setup (I used the PBX in a Flash VMware Module from http://pbxinaflash.com/vm/, andusing the trial version of VMWare Workstation 8).
One thing I found was that in order to be able to install PBXIAF once the OS setup was complete, I had to set the networking on the VM to Bridged, and check the "Replicate physical network connection state". I also went in to the Virtual Network Editor and set the connection to bridge to the LAN adapter I was using, and everything worked well.
Before I did that, I didn't get the PBXIAF menu once it rebooted after the initial OS setup.
Anyways, shutting it down for the night, will test more tomorrow.
Thanks again to everyone for the help so far!
(And Tom, if you do decide to speak backwards, make sure you reverse everything, including the letters in the words, because I haven't found an online tool to just reverse the order of the words yet, though I'm sure there's something available somewhere...)

 

[darmock]

We actually took the 2 rpm's off the ISO this was done to facilitate rapid changes to either program without having to issue a new ISO every time. Thus under VMware you will always need to use bridge mode and have dhcp available. I can just hear the guys who dont run a dhcp server starting to whine (btw we estimate that this is < 0.5% of installs)

It was a question of convenience for the developers (who work for free) versus the guys who dont run dhcp. Damn ranting so early in the morning!

ylrea oot si ti

As for the tool hmm read a line of text separated by spaces write them into an array read the array backwards and print out the sentence. Have to think about the reversing of the letters but in higher languages there are tools for it. This might be a good MOTD substitute for PIAF hmm.......

Tom