QUESTION Need advice on what to purchase

[Gordon Flanary]

Hello, first off I am new to PIAF, but have successfully installed piaf-green and got it working with google voice and a SIP client on my android using various tutorials found here and elsewhere. I have read through tons of information regarding PIAF and find it a little difficult to stay informed and current due to the tutorials I am finding being years old.

I have not tried a SIP phone, but have been looking at reviews and aesthetics of the Yealink ones, like the T32, T38, and T46, and they are probably what I will go with.

My situation is this:

I am opening a retail space in 3 weeks and need 2 phones to start, then would need to grow to maybe 6 phones down the road, assuming all goes well. When I see phones that support 3,4,6 lines, do I need the 6 lines, or is that just saying 6 active connections per phone?

I have not purchased anything yet, but need to get things ordered soon.

I am going to run PIAF on a Hyper-V server as a VM and was wondering if 6 users would require it's own dedicated NIC in the server.

I have one mainline number and one fax number both currently with phone.com (would need them ported out I assume)

I know about the XML features available on some phones and truthfully I only need the abilities to send and receive calls, transfer to other DIDs, put on hold, and maybe the auto answer speakerphone intercom.

Usage:

I will have 3 phones used only for outbound calls, and 3 others for inbound. I like the idea of GV being free, but is it something my business can rely on? I read something from Mundy saying the trainwreck is coming, but could not find a date on it, so not sure if that is still accurate, or it has changed. Should I get another provider? Should I get a POTS line for backup?

My retail space is a computer repair store, and I will have a combination WDS/MDT/PXELinux server for tools and imaging. I assume this will conflict with a t*f*t*p server for phones, but I could always program them manually.

I also plan to multicast on the network, so are SIP phones capable of filtering that out, or is a vlan required?

Planning on pfSense for a router.

I am planning on having computers connected through the phones in a daisy chain fashion. Do I need to get a vlan capable switch for this? Or can the phones be on the same subnet?

Obviously I am already on a budget having 10s of thousands into a build out, so would like the most cost effective equipment, that will get the job done for 2 phones now and 6 phones later.

Thank you in advance for any input.

 

[Jeff Schade]

RE: Line Usage
VoIP lines are not like traditional PSTN lines where "one line" = "one call." Theoretically, if you have two VoIP phones with three lines each, you could have up to six concurrent calls (if your provider allows it) because each phone can handle three (calls are not shared between phones as on a PSTN system).

Different providers offer different incoming call options.

For example, my office previously used SIPStation and they offered unlimited minutes and up to two concurrent calls per trunk ($25 a month). On the other hand, our current provider, Flowroute, charges by the minute but we can have unlimited concurrent calls. We use four line phones, so theoretically we are capable of making up to 20 calls at once (again, that's theoretical, don't try this at home because you may overload your system, etc.). This is good because you only have to have a single phone number but can take multiple calls unlike the old PSTN days when you may have had three or more lines "hunted" and calls would roll over from one to the next (and then, as in our office, sometimes people get the numbers of your extra lines and then they call you on those and refuse to update their phonebooks, no matter how many times you tell them, necessitating always keeping your old DIDs even though they are no longer used).

RE: Google Voice Ward is correct. The future of GoogleVoice is not clear and there's no guarentee that it will continue to work with Asterisk/FreePBX/PiaF. Don't trust it, especially for a business phone.

 

[rjm]

If you need three lines for out and three only for inbound calls, then what you purchase would be governed more by how you desire they interact then what is required. For example, if you don't need to have busy lamp indication so that you know when other phones are in use, you won't need anything more than a single line, single sip phone. If you want each one to be able to be configured to have a button for each of the 6 possible sip accounts, then you will need a 6 line/sip account phone.

One item you may wish to consider is hunting. Not all providers will allow you to hunt from one line to another to another, like a standard PSTN. Flowroute, for example, will allow you up to two channels per "number" (DID) but if you want to hunt to a third you will need to change to a virtual pri which is much more expensive. Outbound calls are all by the minute with them so it is not an issue.

With only 6 phones you probably don't need a t*f*t*p server to configure. It's not a lot of work to program 6 phones manually.

Regarding load, 6 extensions is likely not going to be a lot of load on your server unless some of them are telemarketing.

With regard to Google Voice, Ward definitely is plugged in. If he says something is coming, you can take it to the bank. That having been said, my recommendation would be to go ahead and spend a couple bucks on a phone number from someone like Flowroute (I'm a customer and I love them). It's nearly free and reliable. Plus, they have great tech support.

With regard to daisy chaining, if you go with Grandstream phones, most of them will allow you to daisy chain through the phone and into the computer. I have never done it in production, but I know that it's there. I have found Grandstream phones to be both a good value and good quality. I have the new 2200 on my shopping list and the 2100s are great work horses with up to 4 sip account buttons and 6 programmable buttons. If I were selling you the job, I would be recommending 2100's.

Good luck!

 

[Gordon Flanary]

I was actually looking at the Grandstream 2100 and was leaning that way until I read some negative reviews as well as the endorsement from Mundy on the Yeahlink T46G. So now I am rethinking them as they cost much less, and the only comparable Yeahlink cost wise is the T22.

I have not actually ran cabling, so daisy chaining is not a deal breaker.

I think I may be misunderstanding something and would like to clarify if possible. Some of these handsets can be configured to use a provider without the need for a PIAF server? If so do they charge more for it, or would I lose features from PIAF? Why do I need a PIAF server then?

Also onto Trunks and DIDs, I am planning on having the phones with extensions 101,102,103,ect and one main number that is used at least for caller ID on all outbound calls, and one number to reach me, that can be answered on any phone. I would like an away option to have calls forward to cells when techs are out in the field, or they can use a SIP client on their phone.

Can I not just setup PIAF to ring all phones with inbound calls?

Knowing what I need, what should I order through Flowrate? I expect maybe 600-1000 minutes a month to start, then as minutes go up, so does my income, so that's not an issue.

What is the best place to get handsets? I see the 2100 on Amazon for roughly $75 each, but nowhere does it show if they come with power adapters or even support PoE.

Thank you again, and if this is basic info and I am missing a tutorial please point me that direction.

 

[TwigsUSAN]

One thing I would recommend if you are running everything on the same switch would be a QoS enabled switch.

You can put all the extensions in a ring group and they will all ring when a call comes in.

 

[atsak]

You do not need a dedicated NIC for Hyper V. Currently my hyper V host driving my 20 extension home/business system has three PIAF instances, Exchange, a domain controller and a Linux web server on it. No problems with all of it sharing a NIC; barely hit 1% utilization on the gigabit link including the replication of all the servers.

Do NOT rely on Google Voice for business services (outbound might be OK if you don't care about Caller ID, but I can tell you that does matter; people will not answer if they don't recognize the number). Frankly the safest bet is a no loop forward from your ILEC in your area or a stable CLEC, to a VOIP based service from a well established player (ie a DID from Flowroute or another carrier like Vitelity). Alternatively you could get a POTS gateway and get regular phone lines. SIP trunking is another option from a reasonably established carrier with a good track record. There are several listed elsewhere here, but flowroute in my experience seems to be a good choice for low volume (ie 1000 minutes) to start.

Handsets you can buy anywhere; an advantage to buying from a proper website instead of fleabay is warranty. The grandstreams are OK in practice; I have used them before but they "feel" cheap. The Yealinks are way better featured and feel more quality.

You can indeed use the phones without pbxinaflash, but you will spend some more time configuring everything. It's better to have something on site; stuff just works better. IF you are leaning this way you want too look at Anveo retail (not direct) and voip.ms which offer a lot of pbx like features without having your own pbx. I think flowroute might have something like this but I'm not sure.

 

[Gordon Flanary]

*Update*

I have been up and running in the new location for almost 6 months now, and have been using a single pots line from my local phone company with a standard phone.

DSL is the only service I have available here, and it requires a phone line as there are no dry loop offerings here.

I am now looking to move forward with setting up a production PIAF system.

Since I have to keep the phone line I have now, is there a cost effective way to use that pots connection with PIAF? Being that I am using Hyper-V, I do not think I can use an FXO card passed through to the PIAF VM.

I still have 2 numbers with Phone.com that I would like to port to a new provider as well as the number from the pots line.

I assume I can configure multiple DIDs using those numbers and have them route to hunt groups, extensions, ect through PIAF.

I have pretty much narrowed the handsets down to the Yeahlink T22P or T46G, or maybe a couple of each. Are there any features I may not realize I need from the T46G that the T22P does not offer?

Is Flowroute still the provider of choice? I like the idea of paying per minute and getting unlimited trunks. I also need all outbound calls to show one number on the caller ID.

Also what is the Android SIP client of choice now?

So I figure I need to complete the following steps:

Order handsets.
Get a trunk provider.
Port numbers over.
Configure PIAF for trunk provider.
Configure handsets.
Configure routes and hunt groups, ect in PIAF.

Any thing else I may be missing?

Thank you for sharing!

 

[atsak]

You can use an FXO gateway for your pots line and pass the calls via SIP from the gateway to the Hyper V server. For a single line an OBi 110 will be your best bet for a cheap option. Otherwise use a Sangoma Vega, but they are not cheap and come with four regular lines. I have also heard the Grandstream gateways are not a bad option, but I have no experience with them.

flowroute is not my provider of choice but they do an excellent job; Vitelity is good, so is Anveo Direct, voip.ms; any of the names you see around here are generally decent. It's the flat rate unlimited guys who tend to get into trouble.

 

[Gordon Flanary]

OK, so if I setup the POTS number to always forward to a new DID, I would need to 1. Make sure the trunk provider offers CID spoofing and 2. Enable CID spoofing on all outbound calls correct?

 

[atsak]

OK, so if I setup the POTS number to always forward to a new DID, I would need to 1. Make sure the trunk provider offers CID spoofing and 2. Enable CID spoofing on all outbound calls correct?

Correct.