voip.ms calls breaking up, who else can I use?

[atsak]

Yeah - that clearly shows your problem is not voip.ms, but vtl.net.

As I said, one of the carriers between you...

You should open a ticket with your ISP, as they have the most weight with their upstream provider. Voip.ms doesn't have any control over how that traffic gets to their site, until the final hop normally.

This is not entirely true. VOIP.ms can use BGP if they use it to exclude a specific peer if they know what they're doing; issues like this can in fact be caused by BGP flapping (that's not the right term - I forget the right one). However, I expect they're not handling their own peering, likely their ISP is. They should in fact open a case with their colo provider. They can actually locate teh choke point and route around it in most cases, though it may not be least cost and thus might explain things.

Further, packet loss showing at VTL.net (or anywhere) isn't actually meaning that the packet is getting lost there necessarily. It could be anywhere in the chain between yourself and where you see the packet loss occuring. Also, routers now are often programmed to discard ping either all the time or when under load to maximize performance. So you can not infer definitively this is the case. You would need to sample a tracert at various times serveral times to confirm the loss is occuring at a given point.

It's also an over simplificaiton to say that "providers can route around issues before you even know of them". Most BGP or equivalent sessions specifically have a set of circumstances which decide when a link is poor enough ot reqeust a reroute. And sometimes peering isn't adequate to support that at a given ISP (for example in Canada Bell Canada has horrible peering because they're so arrogant they won't peer with tier 2 and 3 providers without charging them in most cases, so most stuff goes through the US).

While generally these automated session protocols and monitoring do catch these problems, the fact that some people are seeing an issue suggest that there's a couple ISP's needing to pay attention in a different way.

 

[Linetux]

VOIP.ms can use BGP if they use it to exclude a specific peer if they know what they're doing

I was trying to keep the conversation at a comprehensible level, but yes, to some extent with BGP you can manipulate routes. Generally not a suggested practice, however... if you're not working with ISP's when you do stuff like that, you sometimes affect things in ways you don't have the ability to control - in other words, stuff breaks.

routers now are often programmed to discard ping either all the time or when under load to maximize performance. So you can not infer definitively this is the case. You would need to sample a tracert at various times serveral times to confirm the loss is occuring at a given point.

True. Ping, while not entirely useful anymore, can (sometimes) be used to measure load. But in order to do that, you have to have a lot more information about the hops in the route.

My preferred method of tracking latency is actually to use tools that 'traceroute' (like lft) with different packet types - you choose the protocol and it will trace all the hops. This takes the ICMP problem out of the loop and actually gives you a better picture.

Bottom line: this is an ISP congestion issue if some people have the problem and others don't. And aside from a bunch of folks saying "me too" on here, the next best thing is for everyone who's having the issue 'gang up' on their ISP to get the problem solved.

 

[Speedy2k]

Ok, but i have some system on ADSL because cable modem isn't avaible in those area, and i have the same king of issue. everytime it is on and just the node befpre IWEB. Bell canada come to the iweb by TATA and i got the same kind of problem there too! SAme king of ping trace!

 

[Speedy2k]

I have done another trace and it is even worse, it as run all the night!

It really need to be fixed, i have 2 provider here and they are both in the same data center, this is not really helpfull, is there any other good canadian provider for a reseller ?

Voicemeup for the same time is even worse!

 

[jades]

grnvoip, net2phone (min commitment required), gafachi

All the above have canada for $0.005 per minute and under. Gafachi has discounted pricing for volume traffic posted on their rate sheet. grn and net2phone, you would have to negotiate with the billing dept or your sales rep, depending how much traffic you pass

 

[Speedy2k]

But does they have LNP service for Canadian (Quebec) number and does they have Quebec DID not only Montreal but Quebec wide ?

 

[grumpy]

Speedy2k who is your internet provider, you can sometimes get your provider to put you on a different route if available. Have you tried other voip.ms servers?

If your provider has direct forum like bell or teksavvy use it, I eventually got my problems solved that way.

 

[Speedy2k]

I have tried many of the closest server, but they all seems to end up with the same problem. It seems that SIP connection is better then IAX2 with them, but i still got random 1 way audio and random dropped calls on each and every of the PBX i have connected to VOIP.MS. From the Videotron cable network or the Bell Canada ADSL network it doesn't seems to change anyting. And they are not doing anything to resolve this. They just say it's on my side, but i haven't got this problem before, it does 1-2 months i does that.

 

[grumpy]

You could ping all of their servers and see which gives you the best performance, location does not really matter. Changing voip providers will probably not give any relief. Also as far as bell goes I found the direct forums at DSL forums better then calling in. (fought for 2 years calling in to get my problems fixed and 6 months in the direct forums)

But as a test you could always try another voip provider to see if the experience is any different. (I sure if you search you could find the info to ping the voip servers too!) See if any of them will get you a different route.

 

[w1ve]

FWIW My voip.ms results

I use my PIAF for home/home office. I use a hosted PIAF in LA, and my primary in/out provider is voip.ms (using the LA pop). The ping time to the LA pop is less than 6ms.

Now, the funny thing is that I'm on the east coast (I could move my pbx to NYC, but performance has been excellent, so I haven't had to).

Anyway, I've been on voip.ms for a year. I can say that I've never had a packet loss problem. I have had routing issues on the value route, but if I switch to premium, it's always resolved.

I have had packet loss issues -- and it's always been my local ISP (which happens to be a Wireless ISP running Motorola Canopy on 5GHz). As soon as I notice any packet loss, I give them a buzz and we can usually resolve it pretty quickly.

Anyway -- bottom line is I've found voip.ms to be excellent, with good response from technical support.

 

[atsak]

Why don't you peer to somewhere other than Montreal or Toronto? Maybe one of the US datacentres won't exhibit the problem.

 

[Speedy2k]

The problem i got is the problem seems to be on outbound call only, so anywheer i'm connecting, they will probably route the call to the same carrier where they have problem, and the other problem is the ping time, here in Sherbrooke, The closest server is in Montreal and i got packet loss, long ping time and big jitter, the second one is New-York, for almost 6 month it was rock solid, but same problem now even worst. The second one is Toronto, but i got the same dropped calls problem on their! since they probably usr same route as for the Monteal server.

 

[atsak]

The problem i got is the problem seems to be on outbound call only, so anywheer i'm connecting, they will probably route the call to the same carrier where they have problem, and the other problem is the ping time, here in Sherbrooke, The closest server is in Montreal and i got packet loss, long ping time and big jitter, the second one is New-York, for almost 6 month it was rock solid, but same problem now even worst. The second one is Toronto, but i got the same dropped calls problem on their! since they probably usr same route as for the Monteal server.

Problem is your ISP, I'm sure now; chances are if you see this problem everywhere for voip.ms you'll see it if you change providers too (though you might get lucky). Any chance you could grab a cheap/quick DSL install from Bell (ugh) or any other provider or even a 3g connection (too high latency for reliable VOIP but good for testing)? Videotron must have a congested network . . . (doesn't surprise me they're pretty popular in la belle Province). If you can get something from Allstream there's a direct peer to the Toronto server.

Voip.ms servers are not on the same ISP in Montreal and Toronto. In Toronto they're with Mountain Cable. In Montreal they're using iweb.

It may interest you to know the route to TOronto from Cogeco here in Oakville is 13ms turnaround and to Montreal is 20ms, with no packet loss, jitter or etc. Cogeco connects to toronto.voip.ms through allstream and to Montreal through torix.

So I am REALLY REALLY sure your issue is that Videotron has overloaded your city / hub connection.

 

[wa4zlw]

I work for a CLEC in our DataTAC. They should be able to open a ticket with their upstreams; they're paying for it. Our NOC opens tickets with our last mile or upstream providers all the time.

Leon